Saturday, 21 March 2015

The Miniatures Page

After many years of membership, I've been banned from The Miniatures Page by the increasingly erratic editor.

It seems my "crimes" were;
  • To complain about the site not having a privacy policy which would protect my personal data.
  • To complain about another member threatening physical violence against me -- the other member is still posting away and appears to have been granted immunity over this because he's American and I'm not.
I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage people to use alternate sites instead;
Both these sites have the advantage of having consistent moderation, a sanity which has been missing from TMP for a while along with the refugees from TMP posting & contactable on it and also no habit of blaming and banning the victim when something does happen. I've already been using them for a while, as "katiel" and can be PMed and so on.

If you're into casual racism, misogyny, your personal data being sold off and having threats made against your life, TMP is still there. But I won't be.



Regular service is going to be resumed in a couple of days when I've recovered from going to Zurich.

Zurich, I found, is a lot like London, except that it's peaceful, clean, tidy, organised and when you look the wrong way when crossing the road (because they drive on the wrong side[1]) the traffic patiently stops instead of just running you over... I'll admit I've not been to a lot of other European cities, but Zurich & its people definitely seemed very nice. Thank you all there for looking after me.


[1]It is the wrong side. We picked a side first... :-)

36 comments:

  1. Another advantage it's that they don't shut the site down for an hour or so every day. That really used to frustrate me with TMP, especially as it happens at just the wrong time for me.

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  2. Well said. I left TMP because of the misogyny, racism and general right-wing craziness. LAF and The Wargames Website are much better places!

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  3. I have shared your experience on FB, I hope that is OK?

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    1. I'm fine with it, but it'll probably provoke another TMP furball...

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  4. Dear Katie

    first of all I am sorry this happened to you and no you have NOT done anythignwrong. Another case of "Bill's house, he ignores his rules" . Been there, seen that. Considering the approach I suggest the following:

    1: Raise legal action against the forum for not having a privacy policy AND violating it in the past.

    2:Take legal action against both perpetrator and forum (Bill). According to his own logic he is guilty because he did not stop it (see the frothers editor discussion and AB)

    I am sure there is plenty of evidence via waybackmachine and hardcopies the filthy Frothers (Hi Bill) have taken which they surely happily share with the law enforcement.

    Bill, do you realise what kind of nonsense you are talking and endorsing?

    Do not give in Katie, may it be difficult but enough is enough. I will share this in the largest German gaming forum as well as on my blog. I am sure others are also supporting you.

    Roland

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    1. And so done:

      http://www.gw-fanworld.net/showthread.php/210633-Aktuelle-Ereignisse-auf-tmp?p=3371997#post3371997

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    2. Legal action are you kidding? Good God people thats whats so screwed with the world someone does not like something and they sue!!! and then ruin it for others...lame. It's not a "public" site, you choose to go or not visit, just like any other website. Bill runs it the way he wants and that's his business, don't like it go somewhere else. I go to LAF, Frothers, and several other sites as well as TMP they all have thier own flavor. Remember Bill and TMP have been providing the page longer, much longer than all the rest and I'm thankful for that.

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  5. Katie; you join a large club of folks that have been banned from TMP for trying to get Bill to see reason. My own banning occurred back during the days of his fascination with pedophilia. I advised against it strongly on a Toy Soldier Forum and Bill banned me. He does ban Americans; although he does seem to have a soft spot for a certain type of American; sadly. I've never gone back nor I have I missed the site. LAF has turned into a lovely place for and about miniatures and TWW is a great place to get hobby news. There are also numerous smaller forums that have sprouted as a result of Bills erratic behavior. Frankly it, TMP, has turned into a club I wouldn't want to associate with anyway. Our Miniatures Company, Footsore, doesn't advertise there and frankly at this point I have questions about companies that continue to advertise on TMP. Even a number of long time supporters, John the OFM and Murphy, seem to be standing opposite of Bill more and more. Well Done and Bravo Zulu. You'll find the air a little cleaner now and the breeze a little fresher. Cheers! Donald~

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    1. Oh! -- I was looking at your website only yesterday pondering some of those Dark Age axe chaps. I know the packs come as a selection of 4 from 8 -- is there a chance of being able to get a pick of 8 which just has one of each variant in it?

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  6. You are much better off. Best to browse your favourite subjects occasionally rather than get involved in posting. The site is a minefield of right wing politics, bigotry and misogyny.

    "You'll find the air a little cleaner now and the breeze a little fresher."

    Ye siree Bob!

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  7. I have never had a problem at TMP but I, with a few exceptions, don't read or participate in the TMP threads - just the modelling ones. I am a member of and poster to numerous forums. Funnily enough, the only time I ever had problems was on LAF when a guy complained about one of my posts, PM'd me personal abuse and then tried to get me banned when I PM'd him back and called him a girl's blouse.It does happen there too.

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  8. Well, I left TMP several years back due to the continual abuse and personal attacks I received from other posters. It is frustrating because if you get attacked you feel a strong desire to return the favour but when you do you stoop to their level and end up on Bill's wrong side. In the end I just got fed up and left. Best thing I ever did.

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  9. Hi Katie,

    I'm sorry about your predicament regarding Bill and TMP.

    These days I have always tried to keep away from the 'dodgey stuff' on TMP (though it's hard to tell what that is sometimes) but I do feel for you. Somewhere you crossed Bill's line, and probably without knowing it. Given the public harassment Bill has suffered over the last year or two I think his skin has been thinned by the constant blows and given that, I can understand, on a personal level, why he sometimes lashes out. That he has lashed out at you I find difficult to understand from your posts on TMP.

    I hope, at some point, you can both come to a mutual understanding and return to TMP with your heads held high. I don't think you said anything on TMP that was too so out of line to deserve a locked account - I have no idea what you might have said on Frothers or elsewhere.

    Kind Regards,

    James

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    1. There is no excuse for Bill's actions so don't sugar coat it. The fact a user can threaten violence against others and walk away from it all, while those that highlighted the issue get punished speak volumes for his character. KatieL was "silenced" as she constantly exposed Bill's hypercritical "moderation" and obvious favoritism towards his male fan base and Bill doesn't like being shown up by others.

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    2. I'm not making excuses for Bill. As I said, "I don't think you said anything on TMP that was too so out of line to deserve a locked account", but you obviously didn't read that far. Anyway, Jacko, I have no interest in continuing an argument that, IMHO, doesn't exist between us here on Katie's blog.

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  10. Posted this on another list, but its also appropriate to say it here too..

    "Dear Katie

    An example of the right attitude!

    A poster on TMP put it rather well when s/he posited that there were two TMPs

    The first deals with all things toy soldier and is a useful resource

    The second functions as a Facebook come blog for Bill and his mates to espouse their peculiar world view. God help anyone who dares to challenge that world view.

    Violence should have no place in the workplace or in a social setting. If someone raises their hands, or threatens to raise their hands to another person, they need to go, no ifs, no buts, no maybes. Bill has chosen to protect his mate, and banish the victim, that crosses a big red line for me, so I am done with TMP.

    Love the Princess Juliana Dwarves by the way

    Mel"

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  11. I'd like to clarify Bill's latest claim -- that I was messaged prior to my account there being suspended. This wasn't in fact the case. He suspended my account in response to my complaining about threats of violence. He messaged me to tell me he had done it. He also allowed the threats of violence to stand.

    I didn't "choose" not to respond -- my account had been blocked at that point... so I couldn't.

    I feel it's important to be accurate about these things.

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  12. Gave up posting there about a year ago. Just not worth it.

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  13. yep
    was a regular for 10+ years, Bill just went off his rocker

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  14. I'm about a year late (almost exactly a year late...) but I gotta say welcome to the club. I was banned for telling Bill that I thought he was exploiting his Filipino 'editors' (aging grognards drooling over new staff is a bit sick-making), before one of them came forward and actually made claims of exploitation.

    And to think I was idly wondering if I could set up a new account there. This blog post, as the second google result for 'the miniatures page'* brings me to my senses and reminds me why I was GLAD to be banned, the first time.

    * A good thing, IMO.

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  15. Warren, which editor made claims of exploitation? I can tell you. None of them.

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  16. Really, Bill? You know your editors that well, do you? Absolutely sure about everything they've been saying to everyone on the internet? Why, it's almost as if you were responsible for the words they say, isn't it?

    Whatever Warrne might have heard, we do know for a fact that one of the transpinays you have been "helping" has indeed called you exploitative, although AFAIK, she isn't an editor. You might want to take a long,hard think before stirring shit like this up again, given the stuff that came out the last time you were apparently off your meds and tried to dictate terms to the internet.

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  17. I recommend LAF and TWW. Gaming with out the drama.

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  19. Just found this thread and find it relevant. I have noticed for some time a decline at TMP and what Bill will and will not allow being often arbitrary and he is unwilling to take even moderate or productive critique of how he runs things. Today I log into to my account and find I cannot post comments because I am not a supporting member. Now forget that I have been a supporting member in the past. I can only see this as Bill's way to silence more critics. Of course those who do have supporting memberships are likely to have their posts pulled or comments snipped if Bill does not like the tone. Which, if I am paying for the privilege I should have a say in how that goes should I not? So while it has often been a site to go to for information on miniature wargaming and products and the occasional good discussion I am done with TMP as well. I will go to Lead Adventures Forum and check out other venues. Katie I am sorry that you were treated the way you were. Sadly, this has been a trend for some time on TMP towards the female members that were posting. Neotacha was one of the most intelligent and interesting posters on TMP but ended up leaving as well due to the misogyny and outright hate directed towards her and her husband. Both are good people who I have met at conventions. It is too bad that things have gone the way they have.

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  21. We had the same thing happen some time ago. One of the members - a sad piece of poop called Goria Smud, was way over the top criticizing one of our pals, a well respected attorney. The bias was so evident in BAs treatment of them, that our lawyer pal asked Bill in a post what Gloria Smud had over him, so was banned. I defended him, so was banned.
    Still, it was fun to take the entire thread and put in in one of my blogs, where Bill can't use his "editing privilege".

    Now, a few more excellent people that I know personally have been banned, again, seemingly arbitrary. So generally speaking, I automatically believe anything people say about this behavior on the part of Bill.

    As for the TMP, I find the nude forum and his sick and inherently exploitative ties with Philippino transexuals disturbing, and am eagerly awaiting an alternative forum [for which I'd even pay]. So, I will try the above forums first chance I get.

    Meanwhile, I just get my pals to post questions for me at TMP. So at the end of the day, his "banning" doesn't even work which constantly amuses me.

    Anyway, I personally find a number of people who post there to be thoughtful and even well informed, so I'll use it whenever I please, but generally, am unsurprised at the drama and ickiness when I hear about it.

    But what the heck, I get what I want out of it so do I really care about the editor?

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  22. Thanks for that link Russell. I have bookmarked the site. Four days off TMP and since I have found a number of other forums that do not have the issue of TMP I am not missing the daily habit.

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  24. Katie,
    Just found your blog and, like others here, I wanted to tell you that you are not alone. I have also been banned by the Armintrout maniac. In my case for calling him on violating his own rules by starting two threads he started bashing British gamers. I posted the incident on my own blog. https://volsminiatures.blogspot.com/2017/06/banned-from-tmp.html
    TWW is where I frequent now and everyone there is extremely civil, especially the editor Mike (who Bill apparently hates, endearing him to my heart even more!)
    Regards,
    Vol

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